Repackaging tool - what to choose?
Hello everyone
I have begun looking into upgrading our chosen repackaging tool and would very much like to take advantage of the experiences you have out there.
Presently our company uses Wise Package Studio 5.x (in general we have been using the tools offered by Wise since the dawn of the windows installer format)
We stopped upgrading when WPS became dependant of MS SQL Server because of the ressources needed to implement this.
Our needs are centered around general repackaging and authoring - Package Creation and Customization (Setup Capture, Transform generation, setup capture reporting, Exclutionlists, Basic Script Editoring)
and we do not need any kind of Conflict Management, Quality Assurance and/or Package Distribution.
.. all in all our only problem with WPS 5.x is that it is getting increasingly difficult to manage without supporting MS Windows Vista and 64-bit installations.
What's you take on the tools out there as of now?
Any input is greatly appriciated.
Best Regards,
Christian Roejbaek
KMD, Denmark
I have begun looking into upgrading our chosen repackaging tool and would very much like to take advantage of the experiences you have out there.
Presently our company uses Wise Package Studio 5.x (in general we have been using the tools offered by Wise since the dawn of the windows installer format)
We stopped upgrading when WPS became dependant of MS SQL Server because of the ressources needed to implement this.
Our needs are centered around general repackaging and authoring - Package Creation and Customization (Setup Capture, Transform generation, setup capture reporting, Exclutionlists, Basic Script Editoring)
and we do not need any kind of Conflict Management, Quality Assurance and/or Package Distribution.
.. all in all our only problem with WPS 5.x is that it is getting increasingly difficult to manage without supporting MS Windows Vista and 64-bit installations.
What's you take on the tools out there as of now?
Any input is greatly appriciated.
Best Regards,
Christian Roejbaek
KMD, Denmark
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Answers (34)
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Posted by:
anonymous_9363
15 years ago
Posted by:
wonde
15 years ago
Posted by:
abking99
15 years ago
Posted by:
anonymous_9363
15 years ago
Posted by:
pjgeutjens
15 years ago
If they want more gui based tool, then go for wise package studio, wininstall.
If they are ok with Playing with tables, with some gui then go for Installshield.
A GUI is just that, a shell ontop of the MSI tables.
Personally I started out in Packaging 6 years ago training with Wise, and I loved it at that point. I later had to switch to Installshield (you use what the company uses) and I still stand by what I told my interviewers at that time.
"Wether you use Wise or Installshield doesn't really matter. In essence it's the underlying technology that you have to grasp, all the rest is just the wrapping."
Imo they both have their strong and weak points. I prefer the way Wise portrays InstallSequences for example. But what it really comes down to is what you're used to working with.
Nowadays I find myself an Installshield user, on one hand exactly BECAUSE the GUI isn't as "heavy" as the one in WISE, I spend alot of my time looking at the msi's in table view anyway. Another reason is because I don't like what happened (or didn't happen) to WPS after the Syamantec takeover.
PJ
Posted by:
abking99
15 years ago
I have seen packagers who have worked on Wise package studio, and Installshield. Packager who has worked on Installshield, I felt his concepts are more clear than a packager who have worked on Wise Package Studio. When I dig in to it, I got feedback from packagers.
When Packagers are in learning phase, they always feel wps easier than Installshield. And Because of the habit of working on wps they do not feel convinient on Installshield. Meanwhile because working on gui based application, they do not get to know, what is happenning in the backend.
As I previously said in my comment, I am not very experienced so may be I am Wrong, but when I was working as a QA engineer, I used to get such kind of feedbacks from packagers.
When Packagers are in learning phase, they always feel wps easier than Installshield. And Because of the habit of working on wps they do not feel convinient on Installshield. Meanwhile because working on gui based application, they do not get to know, what is happenning in the backend.
As I previously said in my comment, I am not very experienced so may be I am Wrong, but when I was working as a QA engineer, I used to get such kind of feedbacks from packagers.
Posted by:
anonymous_9363
15 years ago
Posted by:
anonymous_9363
15 years ago
Posted by:
Tone
15 years ago
Posted by:
pjgeutjens
15 years ago
In the really bad situations they actually wrote tools to automate the whole capture/create msi/write documentation/insert in deployment tool process and the packagers become like monkeys clicking buttons... they know how to do standard capture cleanup and that's it
I've seen it, it's scary. You get people literally responding when they make a mistake with "But I'm sure I clicked the button" [:(]
I've seen it, it's scary. You get people literally responding when they make a mistake with "But I'm sure I clicked the button" [:(]
Posted by:
abking99
15 years ago
Posted by:
turbokitty
15 years ago
ORIGINAL: VBScab
soooooooooo...your company employs people to do a job which they can't actually do until they sit in front of a piece of software?
Actually that's exactly how I learned it. A company I worked for years ago bid on a massive IT outsourcing contract and part of it was a packaging/deployment role. No one on staff had any experience in that. They grabbed me from a completely unrelated role and said "you need to learn Installshield and Radia in 1 week and meet the client as an expert".
That was unpleasant, but I faked my way through it. I'd love to see those packages now. I cringe at the thought of them.
Posted by:
smooochy
15 years ago
I started just this April using AdminStudio (Installshield). It's kind of an older version, but it only took me a couple months from having no experience working with MSIs to being competent at packaging. It really is something you have to just sit down and do in order to learn it. We are deploying packages across a university campus of around 5,000 nodes.
Our version here can be a bit flaky, especially on my box, which doesn't sport the latest-and-greatest hardware. Despite that, it has handled even the most demanding applications, from SAS to ArcGIS, down to the simplest projects like Filezilla and Skype. Hell, I just finished packaging Second Life (a popular online game).
I'm pretty sure that one's not in Package KB :)
Our version here can be a bit flaky, especially on my box, which doesn't sport the latest-and-greatest hardware. Despite that, it has handled even the most demanding applications, from SAS to ArcGIS, down to the simplest projects like Filezilla and Skype. Hell, I just finished packaging Second Life (a popular online game).
I'm pretty sure that one's not in Package KB :)
Posted by:
Inabus
15 years ago
Posted by:
Roejbaek
15 years ago
Thank you for your responses but perhaps I should elaborate our situation.
I am a great fan of Wise Package Studio regarding repackaging and customization, but I am not interested in the rest of the features it provides.
I (my boss) am NOT interested in purchasing WPS 7.x if it means that I also have to invest in MS SQL Server or like.
I am looking for alternatives that provides us with the same functionalities as WPS 5.61 (which didn't require any expensive databases) but also supports Vista and 64-bit installations.
Again: Our needs are only centered around general repackaging and authoring - Package Creation and Customization (Setup Capture, Transform generation, setup capture reporting, Exclutionlists, Basic Script Editoring)
I am a great fan of Wise Package Studio regarding repackaging and customization, but I am not interested in the rest of the features it provides.
I (my boss) am NOT interested in purchasing WPS 7.x if it means that I also have to invest in MS SQL Server or like.
I am looking for alternatives that provides us with the same functionalities as WPS 5.61 (which didn't require any expensive databases) but also supports Vista and 64-bit installations.
Again: Our needs are only centered around general repackaging and authoring - Package Creation and Customization (Setup Capture, Transform generation, setup capture reporting, Exclutionlists, Basic Script Editoring)
Posted by:
anonymous_9363
15 years ago
What's to "invest"? Set up an inexpensive server, slap SQL Server on it (MSDE or whatever MS is calling it this week will do), make sure you have a back-up - and restore - strategy, forget it.
You don't mention conflict management: presumably you and your boss retain an enclyclopeadic knowledge of your build and the content of each package. That'll be handy. :)
You don't mention conflict management: presumably you and your boss retain an enclyclopeadic knowledge of your build and the content of each package. That'll be handy. :)
Posted by:
Roejbaek
15 years ago
Hello VBScab
Thank you for your reply.
I would like to be able to install it as a client/server setup which the WPS Std does not support and the Professional Edition does not support MSDE.
In our case we would need five or six licenses for MS SQL Server.. which I wont be allowed to purchase before I have examined all other options (personally I would also prefer WPS.. )
My problem regarding licenses/SQL Server is that I need to be able to install both server and client on portable labtops that our technicians carry with them when visiting customers.
Using WPS Pro 5.61 this is no problem since it supports MSDE.
We've been doing fine without conflict managenment (and alt the rest of the cool features WPS provides besides package creation/customization).. even though we also support several hundred customers (using everything from MS SMS, Novell Zenworks, Citrix) and quite a bunch of installations.
If I have misunderstood something regarding the requirements for WPS I would love to be corrected!
Thank you for your reply.
I would like to be able to install it as a client/server setup which the WPS Std does not support and the Professional Edition does not support MSDE.
In our case we would need five or six licenses for MS SQL Server.. which I wont be allowed to purchase before I have examined all other options (personally I would also prefer WPS.. )
My problem regarding licenses/SQL Server is that I need to be able to install both server and client on portable labtops that our technicians carry with them when visiting customers.
Using WPS Pro 5.61 this is no problem since it supports MSDE.
We've been doing fine without conflict managenment (and alt the rest of the cool features WPS provides besides package creation/customization).. even though we also support several hundred customers (using everything from MS SMS, Novell Zenworks, Citrix) and quite a bunch of installations.
If I have misunderstood something regarding the requirements for WPS I would love to be corrected!
Posted by:
anonymous_9363
15 years ago
MSDE is called 'SQL Server Express Edition this week and, according to this document http://www.symantec.com/business/products/sysreq.jsp?pcid=pcat_infrastruct_op&pvid=wp_studio_1, it is supported.
Posted by:
Roejbaek
15 years ago
Hi VBScab
You might just have made my day... :-)
I have been so focused on the part:
Microsoft Data Engine (MSDE) does not support Wise Package Studio client installations. If you will install Wise Package Studio in a client-server configuration, use SQL Server.
which is stated on the same page, that you linked to, that I missed the express version.
Of to the drawing-board once again!
Cheers
You might just have made my day... :-)
I have been so focused on the part:
Microsoft Data Engine (MSDE) does not support Wise Package Studio client installations. If you will install Wise Package Studio in a client-server configuration, use SQL Server.
which is stated on the same page, that you linked to, that I missed the express version.
Of to the drawing-board once again!
Cheers
Posted by:
anonymous_9363
15 years ago
Posted by:
turbokitty
15 years ago
Posted by:
Roejbaek
15 years ago
Posted by:
Roejbaek
15 years ago
Posted by:
anonymous_9363
15 years ago
How come you disagree?Because it's simply some marketing wonk's weasle words. I can't think of a suitable analogy. How about that a Morris Minor has "support" for air conditioning. Yes, you can get air con into a Moggie but you have to add this, add that, hack this, strip out that, change this.
Ask them. How does it handle 64-bit registry? Where's the UI for WI v4.5's features?
Sheer marketing puff, I'm afraid.
Posted by:
MSIPackager
15 years ago
Posted by:
anonymous_9363
15 years ago
I think this gives the lie to Symantec's "commitment" to the Wise product line. Even if they released v8 this year (highly unlikly, IMV), just calculate how long it's taken them to get the point of fully supporting 64-bit. How long were betas available for their team to get started on?
I *really* don't like saying it as I prefer it to IS, but WPS is dead, or at best, taking its final breaths.
I *really* don't like saying it as I prefer it to IS, but WPS is dead, or at best, taking its final breaths.
Posted by:
turbokitty
15 years ago
ORIGINAL: MSIPackager
I've heard from a reliable source that WPS8 will fully support 64-bit - not that it helps you today but at least WPS is still being developed by Symantec.
I've heard that too, but when?? Until, the product is out, I consider all this to be conjecture and wishful thinking. WPS hasn't been updated in years, why should I expect next year to be any different?
Posted by:
Nirmal1208
15 years ago
Did some one tested whether Wise package studio works on Windows 7 ?. We are using WPS 7 to package for vista and soon will be moving to Win 7 so just want to make sure we can use this on Win 7 too.
Also out of topic questio, does any one forsee any problem with packaging application on vista ( using WPS 7) and using them on Win7. ?. I know win 7 has Windows installer 5 where as vista has 4.0. will this or any other win 7 feature cause any problems to the packages that are created on vista ?.
appriciate your comments on this.
Also out of topic questio, does any one forsee any problem with packaging application on vista ( using WPS 7) and using them on Win7. ?. I know win 7 has Windows installer 5 where as vista has 4.0. will this or any other win 7 feature cause any problems to the packages that are created on vista ?.
appriciate your comments on this.
Posted by:
turbokitty
15 years ago
Posted by:
anonymous_9363
15 years ago
Posted by:
Nirmal1208
15 years ago
TurboKitty , Thanks for the link .
1) I have used SAT to analyze the setup when i migrated from XP to Vista ..do you think that would be necesssry between Vista and Win 7?
2) Looking at Win 7 i don't think any of the "new" win 7 features would affect the application install / functionality. The only part i worry about is newver version of Windows Installer on win 7 (understand that security has been improved) ..will cause any problem to the custom actions execution ?.
3)Also , do you have any idea on Wise Package studio's compatiblity with Win 7 ( i am trying to install on WIn 7 RC now) ...
thanks again.
1) I have used SAT to analyze the setup when i migrated from XP to Vista ..do you think that would be necesssry between Vista and Win 7?
2) Looking at Win 7 i don't think any of the "new" win 7 features would affect the application install / functionality. The only part i worry about is newver version of Windows Installer on win 7 (understand that security has been improved) ..will cause any problem to the custom actions execution ?.
3)Also , do you have any idea on Wise Package studio's compatiblity with Win 7 ( i am trying to install on WIn 7 RC now) ...
thanks again.
Posted by:
anonymous_9363
15 years ago
If you're packaging, you must have VMs/VPCs/VirtualBoxes (and if you don't, how on earth do you tolerate re-imaging your packaging boxes?!?). In that case, just try it!
While your image is being copied/built/converted to the VM, use the time to contemplate on the consequences of packaging (especially capturing) on a machine whose OS will have a good proportion of system files either missing or, for those with similar names, with different version information.
While your image is being copied/built/converted to the VM, use the time to contemplate on the consequences of packaging (especially capturing) on a machine whose OS will have a good proportion of system files either missing or, for those with similar names, with different version information.
Posted by:
turbokitty
15 years ago
I sat on a Win7 compat course at Microsoft head office with Chris Jackson. He states that 99% or more of apps that run on Vista will install and run on W7. Moreover, as Windows Installer is backward compatible, I expect that you will encounter few problems with installation.
SAT is a nifty little tool and it runs quickly so it can't hurt to use it.
As W7 UAC is actually less bothersome than Vista's, I don't think security will be a problem.
As VBScab said, the above is no substitute for actual testing, but I wouldn't put nearly as much effort into testing as I would on an XP > W7 project.
Did you run the ACT tool at your organization? It will find a lot of these problems before you even start looking at each individual app.
SAT is a nifty little tool and it runs quickly so it can't hurt to use it.
As W7 UAC is actually less bothersome than Vista's, I don't think security will be a problem.
As VBScab said, the above is no substitute for actual testing, but I wouldn't put nearly as much effort into testing as I would on an XP > W7 project.
Did you run the ACT tool at your organization? It will find a lot of these problems before you even start looking at each individual app.
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